French Nationals Non-Thrawn/Snoke players Top4... 1.0

• Versioni
• 1.0

What was your thoughts on Commando Raid? Surprised to not see it in this deck.

Commando Raid was not an option during my playtest. You are discarding so hard with Jyn Erso - Daring Infiltrator and Cassian Andor - Rebellion Operative dices and all the ambush tricks, is it really neccessary ?

Why not a Scrap Heap instead of Maz's Vault?

Every player I met ask me this question. After many tests, I can say that Scrap Heap is a bad idea in this deck. Why ?

This deck is a tempo deck. This deck has to make different during the first three turn. The problem of Scrap Heap is that it cost a ressource and an action to play. My ideal first turn is play a 2-cost weapon on Jyn activate both characters and resolve the dices as fast as possible. So I prefer to play a Maz's Vault that I can play even if I have no money left after all this stuff. Perhaps in more slowly Jyn Erso - Daring Infiltrator Cassian Andor - Rebellion Operative decks Scrap Heap can have a place but not in this one.

But you get the money back after you roll Jyn and then it makes money.

To use the arguement that you worry about tempo and Maz’s Vault is better makes little sense to me. Both cards cost you an action and basically both cards are free the turn you play it and make you money after. Also, why Moisture Farm?

@Vitalogy10

Ok, so you have to roll Jyn without a 2-cost weapon on her and that it is, in my opinion, a very bad start with this deck.

Definitely Scrap Heap isn't a good pick for this deck.

I have a particular gameplan with this deck and didn't include Scrap Heap

@Bigulf

As I said Maz's Vault don't make you lose a ressource and that is a huge difference in my gameplan.

My first action with this deck is always playing a 2-cost weapon on Jyn.

I don't have solid arguments for choising Moisture Farm - Tatooine but all the other options was problematic for me.

I mean Thrawn/Snoke is just as much of a negative play experience as this deck is.

What if you don't draw a 2 cost weapon in your first hand? Even if you aggressively mulligan for it every time (all 5 cards back for new ones) there's still a 14% you won't get one in your opening hand. Is that just luck of the draw feels bad? or can something else be done to mitigate that?

Toxic meta? And you play Jyn2/Cassian? That's kind of a laughable comment, I think.

Maybe it's toxic in your area, but if you're playing Jyn2/Cassian you're as much a meta-slave as anyone else so to say T/S is the problem is a bit of a joke. Mill was the problem. Then hero blue/yellow jump decks are the problem, And the wheel goes round and round. The meta is fine, it's just that so many people go to the meta decks rather than trying to play counter-meta. Want to "fix" the meta? Think outside the box instead of following the herd.

@chinovalley

I don't remember a deck that compose 87,5% of the Top Cut on a Premier Event. There was probably strong decks in the past but nothing to compare with the actual Thrawn/Snoke. No more diversity. Just 1 deck to perform.

To perform, the diversity is impossible. The better counter to Thrawn/Snoke is Thrawn/Snoke.

And how can explain and argue that a Top8 with 7 times the same deck is not toxic ?

And please, don't be so arrogant and contemptuous in your comment. It looks like it was written by a French Guy.

Best regards from the Meta-slave guy ;)

@larsen67 I would definitely reconsider Commando Raid. Sure you get discard on their sides plenty, but a) you get three discard turn 2, or turn 1 with Hit and Run, but more importantly is the second sentence on Commando Raid that everyone seems to forget. Draw a card. Dumping three from their hand and drawing a needed card all for 1 resource is an incredible value. You can still also still see value from one of the other discards you rerolled (maybe even two) or have a card to discard to reroll into damage.

I agree with @borghethat card draw is awesome and that it's often forgotten about. I'm not sure where I'd cut, though. I play hardcore mill and agree that Scrap Heap isn't automatically good in a mill deck. And with all the weapons in here, I wouldn't call this a true mill deck: it's got the damage option, which I think it's really cool to keep that viable. I like the deck, and don't let the haters get you down.

Alright Larsen--do you want to insult a whole nation while you're whining about the meta? Nice job, dude. I'm not French but whatever. The meta is not toxic--you're taking one tournament and bitching about it. Let's see how things unfold, it's still quite early in this new set (ATG). Knee-jerk reactions are unnecessary--you're upset that you lost a tournament (understandable) but blaming the whole toxic meta on your loss (whining). I'd say what nation YOU sound like but why walk through the nationalistic door you opened? Jyn2/Cassian--the other toxic meta deck, if I follow your line of reasoning, calling Thrawn/Snoke the problem. You do see the hypocrisy, right? Have patience, see how things unfold. And suck it up fuzzball, it's a game.

@chinovalley Do you know something calling Irony ? Definitely, the sense of humour is not your thing... That's sad and pity don't let me explain my joke.

And you didn't answer to my first question. How do you call a meta with 7 Decks in Top8 of a premier tournament ?

And come on guy as you say it's only a game, so calm down and have a beer because yours commentaries are aggressives without reasons.

Hey Larsen...you wrote this: "I'm a little pissed off of this toxic meta. Thrawn/Snoke is a huge problem for Star Wars Destiny...." Why don't you calm down and quit being a whiner? You lost a tournament that was dominated by a particular character combo. That sucks, yeah, but calling the whole meta 'toxic' and Thrawn/Snoke being a huge problem--after ATG just released and the meta hasn't even been fully formed yet? Your passive-aggressive insults are ridiculous. Maybe English isn't your first language, doesn't sound like it. I did answer your question about 7 decks in top 8; try reading my previous statements again. New set, new meta, this is the first iteration of what will be many tournament results. Yes, Thrawn/Snoke will be a serious player--anyone who was paying attention to this set knows that supports will be a huge deal going forward. Thrawn/Snoke is one of the best character combos for support decks. No mystery here. You will also see hero support decks being built. And there will be speed aggro decks that will be created to help counter the support decks--you're playing one yourself, probably the next big 'toxic' deck of the meta, Jyn2/Cassian. Overall you had success with your deck but got 'pissed' because you lost and the tournament was crushed by a specific character combo. When you conclude your tournament report with complaint and 'sky is falling' rhetoric then you deserve to be called out for it. ATG just dropped, the new meta is forming, but you've already concluded that the whole game is in trouble because of a single tournament result. Am I aggressive regarding this? Sure I am, because knee-jerk whiners sully the game and it's way to soon to make your doom and gloom announcements. Let the meta form, let the counter decks be created, let's see how it plays out. But you want to call it toxic right out of the gate because you lost to Thrawn/Snoke, there was a crew of players who saw the potential and played the combos and apparently you and others weren't ready for it. Stop whining and start thinking how to counter-build. You lost a tournament, big deal. Put your big boy pants on before you claim the whole game has a huge problem because of one character combination. Rock/Scissors/Paper--you got rocked, now figure out Paper. Get it? Good.

As for your vague 'jokes'--I don't assume you're French but apparently you are, if you're trying to be funny and ironic. Sad and pity is your passive-aggressive response to whining like a stuck pig because you lost to Thrawn/Snoke while playing the other big new meta deck, Jyn2/Cassian, even though your tournament report suggests you had a fighting chance, you just came up short. I really despise knee-jerk whining especially after you clearly could have done better with the deck if it were built a little better. The list is somewhat deficient as others have pointed out. Don't whine about the toxic meta, get back to testing and fixing your deck so you can do better next time. I'm done with this conversation, whine more if you need to.

@chinovalley

Please stop because you are going to far. I'm not whining about losing but I'm complaining about a over-powered deck that need to nerf as soon as possible because this week-end a lot of casual players was disapointed about the state of the game and aren't motivate to come back during the Regionals Season. Your attacks against me are totaly personnal and it is hurting me : "meta-slave, fuzzball and stuck pig". What next ? On my side, I just wanted to share my passion for this amazing game and my deep sadness that a deck nowadays is so problematic because it causes a strong negative player experience. A lot of French players experienced that during the Nationals.

But I will stop debating with you because you are disrespectful, coarse, hurtful and stubborn

You're a polite insulter whereas I don't sugarcoat--what's the difference? It's a new meta, people were surprised and unprepared, that's what I'm hearing. Now you're calling for nerfs? That's amusing. Top level competitors laugh at this level of hurt feelings. If you're going to a top level event, be prepared to get destroyed if you haven't put in the work to deal with the expected meta shift. That's what you're complaining about. As for casual players--why would they whine about the competition at a top level event if they are casual players? Your statements make no sense. Go back to the drawing board, test the deck better, watch the meta, be prepared for the next top level event. Your deck was close but not quite there and now you're calling it a toxic meta and stating a need for nerfs. What's next? Yeah, let's stop the debate, you're all over the road with your statements--and you are insulting in a passive-aggressive way (which doesn't matter to me except when you try to take the high road while still insulting in return, which is hypocritical). Good luck in your next tournament, hopefully you'll be more mentally prepared to handle the changing meta.

We definitely need more events to know if the meta is Thrawn/Snoke heavy. However, I think it is safe to say that Snoke will be adjusted in some way.

If you build a deck to handle what Thrawn/Snoke does, then it's not nearly as scary as it's made out to be. Since most players like to play the new hotness, then anticipate there will be many Thrawn/Snoke decks and play counter to it (if you're not jumping onto that deck directly). Counter-meta deck ideas are the key to keeping the meta balanced. Discard and disrupt kill the support decks, and hurts most other decks as well. The design options are there, more nerfs aren't needed. Nerfing is the lazy way out, that shouldn't happen unless there is overwhelming evidence that a card is overpowered. Thrawn/Snoke have been around for awhile now, why suddenly the need to nerf them? It's a knee-jerk reaction at this point.

Scrap Heap is the absolute best card in Jyn / Cass decks behind Jyn Blaster. Sure, you slow down your upgrade on Jyn by 1 round but it feeds out an entire resource engine for a deck where you are often just too poor. Once you tighten up the deck you'll probably have a better time. Jyn Cass has a better time against Thrawn Snoke than most other decks do. If your list was stronger, you might have had a better time powering through Claus and Mads.

In general it is hard to guess a meta, but if you knew it'd be a lot of Thrawn Snoke, then you'd have needed to adjust the list to be much better geared to the field. There are a lot of different ways to go with the deck so all you can do is test and get a feel for what you like, but you really can't blame a deck for being toxic this early on. Good luck in your endeavors!

The reason Thrawn Snoke performed well is that it is an all-rounded deck. It can win versus everything and has no awful matchups. The scary expected decks were Otk, yourdestiny team added counters to vehicles like At-St, and ways to handle mirrors. (imperial discipline is just wtf card!) I would not say Thrawn took all the top spot, but the team that had the best preparation made it happen. Congratz to them. If they had brought 5 otk and made 5 otk on top Would it be Otk op? :)

Now that we had a peak of the meta I am looking forward to seeing the adjustments players make going into this weekend’s regionals. As far as Jyn/Cassian goes, my playtesting shows it does well against what was seen in France.

Scrap Heap is definitely the best economy card for this deck hands down... Dont forget Jyn isnt the only member of the team that can trigger it. Play it. Roll Cassian trigger a discard off the top. You are back to 2 money. Then it is basically guaranteed action free-variable free money on future Jyn activations. Insane!

Scrap Heap is a superstar in this deck !! Activate = free money Yes please

Congrats on making it to the Top 16. Knowing what you know now, are there any changes you would make to the deck? I have a regional coming up in January and I'm thinking of running either this or Mauler / Iden Versio / Armored Reinforcement.

you're deck does Mill and Damage. Have you any Experience in Pushing it more (or completly) into one direction? Or Is it just so flexible that you can do what you want it to do whenever you feel like? Concerning Scrap Heap and other "must haves" I think you did very well against those snoke and if you think it doesn't fit in your deck that's just fine. Anyone else can build their own versions... Gratulations on making it to top 16

@Schlizzer this kind of deck (like Rose Jedha) actually plays heavily with doing both very well. The problem with going more in one direction than the other is you change the intent of the deck. That deck will still work but it’s a different deck archetype than this. A few things unique to this archetype are a) it is very flexible against both fast decks (able to deal damage quickly) and slow decks (able to mill necessary cards), b) the mild mill aspect is devastating to decks that discard their own cards against damage decks like Force Illusion, Friends In High Places, etc, c) as others have pointed out it means you can EASILY (that being the key) switch your strategy mid game if needed. Start by intending to do damage and kill them, but if your opponent has been hit with bad rolls and needs to discard a lot, a round of three discards and 4 mill might be enough to empty their remaining cards with not enough damage on the table for lethal. A big reason these decks work so well (and so flexibly) is because both your discard engine and your hand engine are online up til the end of the game. That both characters have damage sides, and that you can get 2 more resources JUST BY ACTIVATING JYN (with Scrap Heap) makes it super easy to put big weapons on them while not reducing their mill game at all.

I see he doesn’t have Scrap Heap now. Yeah Scrap Heap is near mandatory for most Jyn decks. Starting your round with 1-2 extra resources just by activating Jyn is crazy.

@larsen67 nice deck, slighty different take on Jyn/Cassian. how did the 1x (one of) many things workout for you?

I'm curious about the weapon selection myself. Each does something different, with half having ambush. It makes some sense to me to have the variety to have a toolbox of gun choices. That said, not running two Handheld L-S1 Cannon seems tough considering how good that gun is. I think I get why but I'm interested in your and others' takes.

@Schlizzer

In my opinion, this deck is 60% aggro and 40% Mill. For me, the biggest streng of this pairing is doing the both part very well. If I want to push more in one direction, I think that there are better Mill Decks and better Aggro Deck.

@Ramin2-D2

I was very happy with this toolbox aspect of the deck. My only regret was to have only one Improvised Defense, this support is so cool against Thrawn/Snoke, Yoda/Boussh or Shadowcaster deck.

@Rhavas

It is just because I only got one in my collection. ;)

Which would you swap out for another L-S1? Any other weapon changes? I'm considering dumping the DL44.

I believe the deck should play as an agro deck using its discard and mill as a disruption on the opponents plans. Jyn can sift through the opponent’s deck cherry picking their best cards and sending them to the grave yard.

Cassian / Jyn isn't meta, it's THEMATIC. It just happens to be a hot deck in play.

Guess you haven’t played it, I would play it against any deck in the current “meta”. It is fast, disruptive, explosive, and consistent.

Jyn2/Cassian with the right deck list is very strong.

@larsen67 I'm highly considering running this at my regional in January. Knowing what you know now , would you change anything out. If so, what would it be and why?

If you are looking for a Battlefield that will help with resources you should consider Theed Royal Palace - Naboo. Its great if you start with your BF to give you that extra resource right away. I agree that Scrap Heap is great in this deck, but I also understand your logic.

Curious how this would handle a transformation into Trilogy at this stage. Any thoughts or is it nearly impossible?